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Is College Worth it?

Ed D’Agostino
Publisher & COO

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Comments (8)

Dan
22h ago

Your opening quotations re "education" are as of 200+ years ago. You then conflate "education" with "university". 200+ years ago, a university education was a rarity. for democracy to function, per those opening quotations, the goal was education through high school for everybody. that goal was largely implemented. going to university as an expected 'norm' arose post-WWII. pls keep in mind what is needed for democracy vs what current expectations are.

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GSemb
1d ago

I teach at a major university. Most of the degrees are a waste of time and money, especially liberal arts.

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VLott
1d ago

I graduated from college in 1972. Then and now, I looked at an undergraduate degree as an opportunity to be further EDUCATED. That was the purpose. Apparently, that is no longer important , and maybe that’s one reason we only discuss higher education as a means to a job, not a means to educating oneself to allow a greater understanding of and contribution to society. Yes, many in my class went on to successful careers, but we were all EDUCATED. The liberal arts degree has been assassinated and colleges did it to themselves.

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MikeSmith
1d ago

I am a Canadian but I think the survey numbers would be pretty much the same for Canada.

I went to Engineering school (Western, London, Ontario) in the 1960's and my tuition was about $500 per year. Today it is $15,000.

I have grand children going to Engineering school and they are learning Calculus over the internet with AI. They find the AI tutor much better than their professor.

I am guessing that a lot of Engineering Courses could be put together with LLMs and AI tutors. And it would be a lot cheaper through economies of scale where several universities could share the same LLM.

There is also the cost of room and board for out of town students which could be another $15,000 per year. It think education is probably where AI could give us the largest payoff. Of course there will be opposition but we need to think what is best for the students in getting the best payoff for their education dollar.

Edited
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Wolf
1d ago

Hi Ed,

 

You make many good points, but then you draw the wrong conclusion. It’s the same fallacy that leads to the saying “There're lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Unless you can run single-variable tests, you can't prove causality with statistics.

 

The Fed and Cooper don't show that “college's value hasn't changed”. That's not what the hypotheses was. They only showed that people with a certain certificate made a certain amount of money. As Cooper points out, you can do quite well without the certificate.

 

More importantly, you point out many alternative certifications that ensure a good income, because we use college as a selection mechanism for jobs. The Qin empire picked government employees through local training. The Han were probably the first that did it through a state-sponsored academy. The US is the odd country out that pushes the cost of selection onto the applicant.

 

During my on-campus interviews, companies freely admitted that what I learned in my engineering classes doesn't help them much. From their point of view, they were overpaying me for a two-year training period in hopes that I will pay that back later. There's a reason so many job postings require two years of experience.

 

Just to give an academic example of how college misses the education point is that “Because graduating seniors must take the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam—which strictly bans graphing or programmable calculators—many major US departments require students to use NCEES-approved calculators starting from day one.” An engineering test that doesn't use computer modeling can't measure real-life practical engineering knowledge. Companies know that. Universities know that.

 

Many big companies, including Google, IBM, and Microsoft, now run their own bootcamps which prove that you can become a good programmer in less than a year. Plus, they get meaningful evaluations of ability from the coding exercises the students go through.

 

So, no, the way the US runs college, students don't get their money's worth. You get better training and a similar outcome from cheaper paths, including AI-assisted tutoring at a fraction of the time and cost.

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Griff
1d ago

Very good article Ed, thankyou!

What the analysis does not address, imo, is the quality of life, breadth of exposure to other lifestyles, cultures, and ideas not to mention being away from home for a while to growup that occurs at college or university. The life long friendships, that I so cherish, are hard to put on one's balance sheet or networth statement are of true value.

I am not trying to muddy the waters just adding a little texture.

Personally, I studied Chemical Engineering, became a professional engineer, returned for an MBA. Did a left turn into business as an owner operator. This evolved into an investor & director role in those businesses permitting me to take a teaching role at a community college in a diploma program supporting the business.


PS In several provinces, at least, when a teacher (primary & secondary) retires, their net income does NOT change. They have a great pension which is cost of living adjusted annually. Not all bad and not reflected in the numbers.

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chuck
1d ago

Ed, Found a bachelors in engineering (in my case electrical) well worth it financial terms over my approximately 60 years in the labor force.

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Burt
1d ago

Ed, Great information. It would be interesting to see a comparison to the projected income from someone with a degree in business, education, engineering, vs trades plumbing, electrician, water distribution, truck driving.... these comparisons today, and projected income in 20 years, plus the actual benefit of each adding the education to the 20 year range (ie 16 years in professions, vs 19 years in trades to account for 1 year of trading)

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